They Are Not the Same Person!
They Are Not the Same Person!
We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. (I John 1:3)
When we declare that the Lord Jesus Christ always has been the Word of God, I have no problem with that.
When we say that Christ has been born of God and is of the same Nature as God, I have no problem with that.
It is when we maintain that there are three equal gods, or that there is one God in three manifestations---I do have a problem with that!
Perhaps it is a question of wording that bothers me, because it is true that in Christ dwells the Fullness of God and that Christ is the exact representation of the Father. This is what the Bible teaches.
But when we say that Christ is the Father, or is the Father in another form, that does not ring with me. I do not see this in the New Testament. I believe it is human reasoning and is not coming from someone who knows the Father and the Son.
And how could we as a human being be a coheir with Christ of the Father if Christ is the Father?
I do not understand this!
You know, a man may have a son. The son is a human being, of the same substance as his father. He may be the very image of his father in appearance and behavior, such that he rightfully can say, "He who has seen me has seen my father."
Isn't that so? It probably happens somewhere in the world.
But would he be his father?
He is of his father's substance and may have the same nature.
But he is not his father.
Is this problem I have in believing that Jesus Christ is not one of three equal gods, or a way in which the Father has chosen to appear so He may be understandable to His creatures—is it worthy of thought? Does it really make any difference.
As we are coming into the third great work of God, that the Book of Hebrews terms "the rest of God," the Father is becoming more real to us. Somehow we are having fellowship with two People—the Father and the Son. We know it. We sense it in prayer. They are real to us.
Christ is demonstrating that He is the Way to the Father.
I guess one has to experience it. The doctrine of the Trinity, it seems to me, is the effort of scholars to maintain the Divinity of Christ, and are doing it in a manner that is at least somewhat understandable to them.
But when we are pressing into the rest of God, Christ is real to us as God's beloved Son, but not as the Father Himself.
It is so people can enjoy a daily fellowship with a Person like themselves that I am attempting to portray a Man, Christ Jesus, who although very Man of very Man and very God of very God, is still a Person like ourselves and who worships the same God.
"Our Father" . . .
This is an important perspective because as sons of God we have been predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ and to be His brothers. It seems to me that this is easier to grasp, than if we view Christ as a projection that God is employing in order to help us, and not really a Person like ourselves.
The relation of Jesus Christ to God is that of Son and Father. It is not a horribly complex relationship that never can be truly grasped and must be explained by objects, such as the Father is the filament of a light bulb; the Son is the glass; the light is the Holy Spirit.
That does not really help, does it, when we are going through the dark night of the soul.
We want a Savior who loves us, whom we love, and who comes with us before the Father as the great high Priest so we can gain the wisdom, help, and comfort we need so desperately at times.
My personal belief is that the man-made doctrine of the Trinity has served its purpose, and now must give way before genuine fellowship with the Father and the Son.
After all, Jesus prayed that we might be one in Him and the Father as they are One. "That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."
We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. (I John 1:3)
It seems to me that any unbiased individual would gather from the verse above that the Father and the Son are not the same Person.
Otherwise, it should read, "Our fellowship is with the Father who includes the Son," or something like that.
When I first received Christ, the theology I was presented with included the venerable doctrine of the Trinity. I readily accepted this, although I could not understand if this meant there were three Gods in one Person, or three Persons in one God. I was occupied with the Lord Jesus Christ and His salvation. I think that some believe there are three Gods, three Persons, all equal.
Since that time, it appears I am supposed to be a "deeper-life" teacher. For the past seventy years I have pored over the Scriptures. One of the first tree to fall was the doctrine of the "rapture," which I came to perceive as a sort of emotional hope with no basis whatever in the New Testament.
Also, I began to view with suspicion the doctrine of the Trinity, that the Lord Jesus was not a Person in His own right but somehow, in an explicable manner, was the Father.
My wife, Audrey, says I just like to be different. This is not true! There is a price to pay for being different from the brethren.
In any case, as I became increasingly familiar with the New Testament, I kept coming across passages that do not seem to fit the doctrine of the Trinity.
Here is a passage that stands out to me:
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." (John 20:17)
Now, let's be fair. Let's be common people, not theologians. Would your average individual read the verse above and conclude that Jesus and the Father were the same Person.
If the God to whom Jesus was ascending is another God of whom Jesus is the equal, why does Jesus say, "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God"?
If He is the God and Father of Jesus, and also our God and Father, how then can Jesus be equal to His God and Father? Equal in what way?
The same is true if Jesus is a Manifestation of one God. Are we also a manifestation of the one God? Perhaps we are, in that we were created in God's image.
Was Jesus ascending to Himself or to another Person? What would the man on the street conclude?
You know, the Bible was not written for priests or theologians but for you and me. When Jesus says "I am going to my Father, I am going to my God," I think of two different People, Jesus and His God and Father. How about you?
If Jesus and the Father are two manifestations of the same Person, then we are not speaking of plain English but of mysticism.
Even more telling is the scene in Gethsemane:
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." (Matthew 26:39)
Next Part "I will"; "You will."